In a pre-election broadcast, former senator Eric Abetz and Australian Federation for the Family founder Jack Sonnemann discussed the upcoming Tasmanian state election with Neil Johnson.
Voice Over / Intro:
A biblical perspective on life, culture, and current events. This is 2020 on Vision.
Neil Johnson - Vision Radio:
Two special guests joining us this hour. Eric Abetz for the liberal party, former senator and federal cabinet minister, looking to put his mark on his home state. Served our career spanning 28 years in Canberra and now putting his foot forward for election tomorrow. As those electors in the seat of Franklin go to the polls. Another special guest joining us too. Jack Soman, the founder of the Australian Federation for the Family. Jack founded the Federation for the Family over 40 years ago. Special welcome to you, Jack.
Jack Sonnemann:
Thank you, Neil. It's great to be here as always.
Neil Johnson - Vision Radio:
And to Eric Abetz, a special welcome to you.
Eric Abetz:
Good to be on the programme, and thanks for coming to Tasmania.
Neil Johnson - Vision Radio:
Well, it is our absolute privilege to be here, and it's such a beautiful state and Hobart, like you could say, a small city, big town, a wonderful feel to it. Just the setting is magnificent. And you've been a wonderful exponent of Tasmania all these years. Your home state, you've served Tasmania, federally, putting your foot forward for a state position tomorrow. Give us a little bit of an insight here. Erica bets, you're not an extinguished force. You're back and fighting fit.
Eric Abetz:
Yeah, look, I've been delighted with the support out in the community generally for my candidacy. I've been going around knocking on doors, wobble boarding on the side of the road, doing interviews such as this and trying to garner as much support as I can. I've been running on the basis of my experience, and I think also providing some stability and certainty. And the feedback I've interestedly been getting is you don't always have to agree with Eric, but you know where he stands. And there is a, I don't like saying that about myself, but a sense of respect about the way I've conducted myself and public debate, even if you disagree with me. So Menzies used to have a line that no matter what, one third or love you, no matter what, one third will hate you. The trick is, can you get the middle one third to actually respect and understand that you're in it to serve? And at the end of the day, Neil, that's what's motivated me. I've had a heart for service before I entered politics, I helped establish a women's shelter, then a youth shelter, all on a voluntary basis with other business people. Then took a pay cut to get into the Senate. And if I get into the House of Assembly tomorrow, it'll be another pay cut.
Neil Johnson - Vision Radio:
I know that so many listeners will remember your long career, 28 years, a senator and some will say you can't win an argument against EBTs. And we are encouraged with your reformed Christian formation. As you say, you're a little bit predictable because people know what you stand for. And so when people are casting their vote tomorrow in the seat of Franklin, they'll know what they're getting when they vote for you, this Christian formation in you, it shapes your values and the values that we bring to the table shape the legislation for a state.
Eric Abetz:
Neil look very, very well said. What I have tried to say many a time is that surely we are all agreed that a legislator's task is to encourage good behaviour, discourage bad behaviour. How do you determine what is good and bad? It's your sense of morality. Where do you get your sense of morality from your world of view? And that is why I say whether people like it or not, everyone has religion or a worldview. My worldview has been continues to be the Judeo-Christian ethic. And I then say to people, that's mine. Now tell me your coherent worldview. And most people stumble because they don't believe in anything, therefore they fall for anything as well. And that has been basically my foundation. And if I might say that is what has made Australia and my home state of Tasmania the envy of the world. I don't see people wanting to flee Tasmania and Australia. In fact, I see them wanting to flee into Australia. And indeed just the latest migration figures show that we've had the biggest influx in 70 years. We must be doing something. Okay,
Neil Johnson - Vision Radio:
Yes, it looks as though we are doing something very right for that number of people knocking on our door and trying to make a new home here. Well, Jack Soloman, founder of the Australian Federation for the Family. You've been doing what you do for I don't know, age you prematurely here because you look like you're fighting fit to me, but 40 years you've been fighting for the family, fighting for children, young people who are influenced by a lot of values that as Christians we say are bad values. Welcome along Jack and thoughts here around values and what's happening in Tasmania.
Jack Sonnemann:
Thank you, Neil. It's always great to be with you. We need to see, and in fact, your audience needs to hear that they need to step up and become militant defenders of biblical morality. It's biblical moral culture from such a great country. Now I'm one of the immigrants that came here. I'm here by choice. I've been here for 40 something years, which is why I don't sound American anymore. But we've been working to protect children. In fact, I think Eric was at the celebration in federal parliament one time when I was presented with an outstanding achievement award for my 20 something years work at the time protecting women and children from sexual exploitation. Well, we're continuing to do that and we need to see more, I think militant defenders of biblical morality. We don't need to support people that come in and say, men are not really men.
We have an independent candidate standing in my electorate who's so confused, he doesn't even know he is a man. He was formally endorsed by the Greens, which says a lot about the greens, but now he's standing as an independent. We have others down there that have no policies whatsoever. And as Eric said earlier, if you don't believe in anything, you can fall for everything. And we need to vote on our values. We need to look at the values of the different political parties and supports the ones that are closest to our values. I don't think our daughters should work as prostitutes. That is a political platform, the policy platform of the opposing party. I have worked with Senator Bets and I've worked with others from his party quite successfully around the nation for many years, seeing laws to better protect women and children from sexual morality. And I'll continue to plant what I consider to be God's standard in this area. Neil, God is not too concerned about what we want. He's more concerned about what his word says. And as long as our wants line up with his word, we get what we pray for. We can pray outside of what God's word says, we'll never get it, but when we stand with him in his word, we'll always get it.
Neil Johnson - Vision Radio:
Eric CBEs, as Jack is describing some of those colourful characters who are standing for election in tomorrow's Tasmanian state election, some of those colourful characters are in your group and in the electorate of Franklin. Have you been mixing with those opponents? Have you been rubbing shoulders with them? Have you been talking to them? Are they standoffish? Oh, that's Eric bets. We'll just give him a bit of a wide berth. What's been happening.
Eric Abetz:
There have been forums around the electorate and I'm more than willing to go to those forums. And yes, they've presented and yeah, we put our differing points of view across. And for some candidates like Martine de Delaney, she accused me of being a liar. The other night at a forum when I mentioned the Tavistock in the United Kingdom had been closed down and that Scandinavian countries were now stopping puberty, blocking of young people. And unfortunately Neil, what I said was the truth, objective, truth, standing, that these are just facts. And yet the other side will say quite loudly, liar in response to the statement of objective facts. And that is unfortunate that in the public and political discourse, objective truth is now no longer considered to be an element. It's your truth and my truth. And can I tell you, Neil, your truth doesn't exist. My truth doesn't exist. What does exist is truth. And if it agrees with you, Neil, good luck. You're on the right side. If it doesn't agree with me, then Eric, you are on the wrong side, but there's no such thing as your truth and my truth.
Neil Johnson - Vision Radio:
Let me ask you about the Tavistock clinic in the UK because it has been closed down. There are, as I understand it, hundreds who are taking Tavistock clinic to court.
Jack Sonnemann:
Legal action against them
Neil Johnson - Vision Radio:
Says legal action happening. But the interesting thing, people will say, oh, that's happening over in the uk, not happening here. Well leaked report from the sorts of guidelines that are being used by wpath. I can't remember exactly what that stands for, but there are guidelines that are being adopted in places in health in Western Australia and no doubt are seeping into health departments for guidelines as to how to treat people with various dysphoria issues. When you've got any sort of issue like that, it affects the whole world. It's also creeping here in Australia. Thoughts from you, Jack Simon and around the way that these things permeate into a society and change the way people think.
Jack Sonnemann:
Yes, Neil, it's a shame that we've allowed the progressive values to become so permeated in our nation. Look at what progressiveness has given to say the US for example, where they have heroin injectors in the street nodding off, they have to have in New York now, but thanks to their progressive values, they have to have subway armed guards by the National Guard with machine guns to keep crime down. They even have homeless people selling pilfer toiletries on the street because they can't get charged with shoplifting thanks to the progressive values if it's under a thousand dollars. So they go clean the shelves off, which is causing several of the largest chains of pharmacies and retailers in America to close their doors they cannot get. And these are all the progressive values of those on the left that are trying to appeal to the lowest common denominator.
All we need to feel sorry for people, what Jesus said, you shall know the truth and the truth will set you free. They're adamantly opposed to the truth. Thou shalt not steal is a truth. There are other truths that are being violated and because we violate 'em, we're reaping the fruit of that. And if we want to see a biblical standard in society, we have to start adopting biblical policies now. That's what we've been calling for and doing for a number of years. And when we bring Jesus into the picture, Neil, it's my firm belief that we see the picture change. Now, not only is that my firm belief, we've seen it happen time and time and time again when people have told me, oh, you can't get that all. You can't achieve that all. You can't solve that when in fact we have. And that has given me a platform in Christian and conservative political forms around the world about the victories we've seen against prostitution, legislation against pornography legislation. All kinds of things happen because we have brought Jesus into the picture. And the picture, I'm sorry, the light of Jesus always dispels the darkness. It's the truth that overcomes the lie, not the other way around. So we need to continue to speak the truth no matter what the opposition does.
Neil Johnson - Vision Radio:
Elections are the time when your vote counts and we all have a vote. It's all equal. Erica bets passed his vote, Jack Soloman passed his vote. It's equal, equal to all of those people who might be on what sometimes we call the progressive left. They've got their equal vote. When we talk about some of these things, Jack mentions and Jack's talking about things that have happened overseas, places like California and San Francisco where drug policy is out of control, people are on the streets and they're homeless people, but the drug policy and then the changing attitude towards police are robbing and doing so with impunity. I mean, let me ask you Eric Abetz, you are familiar with those sorts of stories. Are those coming to Australia? Are those coming to Tasmania?
Eric Abetz:
There is a trend towards that. And the good thing is in Australia, in Tasmania, we have the opportunity to put an end to it and then advance back to some very good standards our community and understand that that which has been done overseas, has failed, failed spectacularly, and so be it with the TAVR stock, with the puberty blockers. The world around now is saying stop it. And yet in Australia we still seem to be sort of half going down that track. We've got to protect our children. My own view is that once you're 18 years old, you are entitled to make decisions for yourself. Good. And freedom is about that. You can make mistakes. We don't live in any state, but my goodness, does government have a role in protecting our young people whilst they're minors to ensure that their lives are not wrecked by decisions being made by adults that might ruin those children's lives forever.
Neil Johnson - Vision Radio:
Let me ask you, Jack Soman, you've been talking to a lot of people lead up to the election. Is there a sense in which some people will think that there is an inevitability about some of these progressive policies? And from Tasmania's point of view, you are watching the North island as Richard Humphrey was referring to the mainland of Australia, looking at the North island saying what's happening there in some of those states like Victoria and even in New South Wales just last night, the conversion therapy legislation's gone through and a CT people will think that's inevitable. That's coming to Tasmania. Is this something that you've noticed?
Jack Sonnemann:
I saw a bumper sticker the other day that said, I feel much better now that I've given up hope. We don't need to give up hope. We're the people of hope. We need to bring positivity into the situation and we can look and see what other states are doing and say, wait a minute, we do not want our daughters working as prostitutes. We don't think that's a good thing. We do not want our little boys taught that they really may be girls. That's not a good thing. We don't want things like that in Tasmania, in my opinion. And I have talked to people who do look upon the other side as saying, well, they're just too big and too powerful. That's why we can't out lobby 'em. We can't outspend them. We can't out media present them. They've got professionals in these areas that we'll never have.
But what we can do is bring our values, bring Jesus into the picture. We bring Jesus into the picture and the picture changes. It's as simple as that, but it's up to us. It's up to the people of God who know their God to be strong and do exploits and to see God's kingdom established on earth as it is in heaven, not as it is in Norway. We want to see God's values implemented not another country or a popular set of values, but we can look to the scripture and see what things are directing us in the right direction and what things take us in the wrong direction and look and see what other countries are doing. Other countries are recognising that women are not empowered by being sexually penetrated by strangers every day. And they're making changes to those laws. They're curbing it, they're pulling back from it. And here like in Queensland the other day, the Labour party up there wants to promote it and wants to treat it as quote any other business and we need to stop all that. It is not any other business. It's the degradation of our women.
Neil Johnson - Vision Radio:
Eric Kabe. When people cast their vote, sometimes one side looks angelic, another side looks demonic. Let's just assume here that there are demons on every side. Let's talk about what sort of a difference you think you might make if you are elected to the Tasmanian parliament tomorrow in the seat of Franklin. Because some will say, well, the liberal party's doing this, that, or the other. What difference is it going to make that an Erica Betts is going to be amongst the crowd?
Eric Abetz:
First of all, Neil, let me say that unfortunately as humans, we are never given a choice between perfection and imperfection. It is regrettably levels of imperfection. And when I reflect on my own life and my own standards, I realise that there are substantial imperfections in my life. So I would not want any listener to think that one side is angelic, the other is demonic. There are various shades of grey in between. I would like to think that the liberal party and myself provide a lighter shade of grey than some of the others. But look for myself, and I've been heartened by this going around the community that the feedback I've been getting is that I will provide a bit more grist to the mill from a more conservative point of view. That the mainstream values, like if we go to the voice, for example, the referendum there, I think I was the first one in Tasmania out of the blocks to say the voice should be opposed.
And without going into the history of that and what happened behind the scenes, suffice to say Tasmanians overwhelmingly voted no 60 40. And so with some of these issues, what you need is somebody that's a little bit crazy brave who's willing to say, this is just wrong in principle, it's got to be opposed. And then get the momentum going. And when people look at things and see that, oh, there's an advocate here that sees no, and might I add just centre price? Wasn't she a godsend in Mr. Debate? Because unfortunately, and this is one of the difficulties of identity politics, which I would like to rail against, should I be given a soapbox in the state parliament on Saturday? Identity politics is just so divisive and corrosive because what we saw with the voice debate was you had an indigenous lady, te Reed, Marxist Jacinta price conservative.
Guess what? The indigenous community aren't all cookie cutter replicas of each other. There are actually differing voices. Same in the same sex marriage debate. I was astounded how many people same sex attracted came up to me and said, we understand where you're coming from and we don't think marriage is for us. That's an issue now that's been done and dusted, but what we need are more men and women willing to hold the public microphone, be in the public square and argue and advocate for and promote values. And one thing, if I might quickly say, Neil, the liberal party's document 17 principles of we believe written by Sir Robert Menzies, and it finishes off in number 17, paragraph 17, with a blessing of divine providence. And what a lot of liberals don't know these days is that the great founder of our party, the longest serving prime minister of Australia when he was at university, he wasn't president of a political grouping. He was president of the Christian grouping at Melbourne University and that peppered everything he did. And when you read his forgotten people's speeches, et cetera, there are all these biblical analogies scattered through them. And you know that he as a son of a Presbyterian minister was deeply imbibed in those sort of values, which were the foundation values of the liberal party. And I hope I can give expression to those founding values that have withstood the test of time.
Neil Johnson - Vision Radio:
And anyone who remembers your history, Eric Bets will know that you won't just sit quietly, but you will take every opportunity to speak up. And we know that oftentimes, even though you attract a lot of opposition as well, sometimes that opposition that you attract just enlarges the message that you bring. Let me ask you about the stability of government because there's been a couple of defections to the cross bench of recent times. There is a minority government as it is today, will it be that tomorrow? Jack Soman, what have you been hearing around the state? Thoughts around the necessity for a stable government for going forward?
Jack Sonnemann:
Neil, we desperately here in Tasmania need a stable government, something people can look to and see what their policies are and see what their stand is on the issues. And we don't have that now and we need to see the government now. I have worked for a number of years on moral issues and I have never had an open door from the opposition parties. I've had an open door from the liberal party. The men and women in the liberal party have given me a platform, have adopted some of our recommendations and measures legislatively on a statewide basis as well as nationwide basis. So I would like to see here in Tasmania a stable, solid liberal majority government. I cannot in good faith cast my vote for something that would give us more instability. We need to see a stable future, especially for our children's sake. They need to see a more solid, I think Christian-based values-based community that they can be raised in so they can feel more secure in their society.
Neil Johnson - Vision Radio:
Going to take a quick break here, our two special guests on this special broadcast day, the preview to the Tasmanian State election. Erica Betts is with us. He's standing for a liberal party seat in the seat of Franklin, former senator 28 years, a career in Canberra. Now he's putting his hand up for election for a state seat in Tasmania. Jack Soman is also our guest Australian Federation for the Family Founder. He founded that about 40 years ago. Always a great advocate for children, for young people, for those generations, and for those biblically founded moral values, we are back with more in just a few moments.
Neil Johnson - Vision Radio:
And our special pre-election broadcast in Hobart from one of the most iconic construction projects that's ever been undertaken in the state of Tasmania. And that is St. David's Cathedral in the heart of Hobart. And just before I continue our conversation with Erica Betts and with Jack Soman, a special guest has just walked through the door. For some listeners, you'll know that vision is on the air. 1 0 4 0.3 FM and Vision has been a newcomer to the airwaves in some sense in Hobart. But Peter Kraus, who is the CEO of Ultra, the Christian station that's been here working in amongst the people of Hobart now for many years. Peter, a special welcome. A quick hello to you. Thank you, thank you. And Peter, you've got a bit of a perception about things so far as this election goes. Have you been having some coverage of your own on Ultra?
Peter Kraus:
Oh, we've had some coverage of our own. We don't go into things too deeply, but we've had a number of politicians who have sponsored, had sponsorship things running on our station, talking about themselves a little bit. And yeah, we welcome that.
Neil Johnson - Vision Radio:
And for listeners, real friendship between Ultra FM and Vision fm, both on the air here in Hobart, let me come back to our two main guests. Thank you so much, Peter. Erica Bets is with us. So is Jack Soman and limited time. Now on our conversation earlier, we were talking about the stadium and the stadium that's proposed. The Macquarie Stadium, a billion dollar price tag put on that. And who knows what that might blow out to because in Queensland, I know that the Queensland government has looked at a huge cost blowout for talk about stadiums for the Olympic Games. This has been a liberal party initiative. Erica Betts. The Labour Party is saying, wait a minute, we love the team, the Tassie Devils, but we're not sure we can afford a stadium right now. What are your thoughts on the stadium?
Eric Abetz:
Very simply, if Tasmania wants an AFL team, it needs a stadium. Simple as that. And so for people to say we want a team but not a stadium, is quite disingenuous with respect. Now, with the cost of the stadium, I'm not going to get into that, but suffice to say that the state government contribution is only 41 days of health expenditure. And so when you think in Tasmania, so if you think of a stadium lasting at least 40 years, we are investing one days of health expenditure per year in that stadium over that 40 year period. And also interestingly is that the state contribution is about 3 75 oke Federal labour is going to make a contribution. So we have this interesting situation where the state liberals and federal labour are joined in supporting a stadium, but the opposition for opposition's sake, it just seems to be against it.
And it'd be fair to say when they came out to oppose it, I think the numbers were on their side. But as I'm speaking to you, 125,000 Tasmanians have become foundation members of the Tasmania Devils. And yes, I'll put my hand up. I'm one of them. And in fact, I went to one of the launches and then went had dinner, did whatever, got home between 10 and 11 o'clock to register myself as a foundation member. And at that stage already 40,000 plus had joined. When I wake up the next morning, it was 80,000. It's now 125,000. And I think the momentum now is overwhelmingly in favour of a team and a stadium. And my hope is we can get a great iconic design and might I yet it'll be an all purpose stadium of which the A FL will be the anchor tenant, and that is what makes it all stack up.
Neil Johnson - Vision Radio:
Let me ask you, Jack Soloman, longtime Tasmanian and an A FL footy fan. No doubt you'll be supporting the Tasmanian Devils. We're talking about a state election. Our primary purpose is to reveal what those policy values might be and contrast those with where our Christian values might stand. Is it possible that Tasmanians might be blinded by the thought of the stadium and that they might not be concerned about these other issues and the election might be decided according to whether people want a stadium or not?
Jack Sonnemann:
Well, if the liberals on side of the stadium and the election is going to be decided on that issue, the liberals are going to get in. It's a popular idea. And when you put it in perspective, as Eric has just done, you can see it's a minimal cost. Not only that, the state government, the liberals have already said, we're capping what we're putting in. We're putting a cap on it right here. We're not going to spend more. So it's a cost blowout. Somebody else will have to cover it. There's plenty of money in the sports teams to come in and help to pay it off. So we will see it happen, I think. But as vision Christian radio is a biblical perspective on life. We need to look at these issues from a biblical perspective and the stadium, it will be good. The state here is growing by leaps and bounds.
More and more people are coming in. Look at all the rubbish that was set above the Opera House on it built and now it's the most famous building in the world. It's the most photographed in the world. And sure there's cost involved, but as Eric has pointed out, when you put it in perspective of the overall picture, it's minimal. And I think if it's going to support Tasmania, my wife wrote the Aurora Chaser's handbook, which is bringing tourists down here. They're all seeking and looking after the Aurora. It's in the third print run now. It's going so popular. And so we need to look at things that enhance the reputation and the status of Tasmania as a worldwide destination, as a national destination, which I think the stadium will do.
Neil Johnson - Vision Radio:
You know what? You've got the Southern Lights, the Aurora as Australis. There are some wonderful things about Tasmania. First thing robo and I did when we got off the plane yesterday when we arrived in Hobart, is we made our way towards a pie shop and we bought a scallop pie.
Eric Abetz:
Very Tasmanian.
Neil Johnson - Vision Radio:
There are some beautiful things about Tasmania, some iconic images of Tasmania. The future of Tasmania is going to depend on some level of stability and a place where you can take a holiday and you can bring the family and you can have a fabulous time. Eric Abe's stability in government, keeping Tasmania to be a safe place for people to raise a family. This no doubt is where people are looking to cast their vote. Even in an election,
Eric Abetz:
Stability is something that people always seek, be it in their financial income, in societal arrangements, et cetera. So stability is key. And one thing we have in Tasmania is a lifestyle which is literally the envy of the world. And so as we grow our population, our task is to maintain that livability within Tasmania and that we keep our appropriate wilderness areas, that we keep our oceans clean, all those sorts of things. Because if you believe God created everything, we have to be good stewards. But I don't think God called us to be preservationists so we can harvest a tree to build a house, and they're the sort of things. Getting the balance back into the debate is so vitally important. Be it for lifestyle, be it economic, and all the wishes that people have, Neil for extra money on health or whatever. I always come back to the foundation of where are you going to get the money from? And that is why the first principle of good government has to be a good sound strong economy that gives people sound stable jobs to build a house, buy a house, raise their family, et cetera. But then from the taxes that generates, you can then deliver all the goodies that people want. Without that foundation, the promises are empty, hollow and undeliverable.
Neil Johnson - Vision Radio:
There are economic issues to consider. There are environmental issues to consider. There are moral issues to consider, and that primarily is where we like to focus our conversations, especially when it comes to this contrast of our Christian values to where policies sit at the pointy end of our conversation. Let me ask you, Jack Sunman, the outcome of tomorrow's election. What are you predicting? What do you think it'll look like when Tasmanians have cast their vote hung parliament, liberal government? Will it be a labour government? What are your thoughts?
Jack Sonnemann:
I'm praying for a majority liberal government. My daughter, Christina, just had baby number 10. She has eight girls and two little boys, and the liberal party here in Tasmania has made it so prostitution is not legal. I think it should not be legal. I don't think the law should sanction that activity against our women. So I'll be hoping for and praying for a liberal majority government.
Neil Johnson - Vision Radio:
Eric, you'll be standing as a liberal candidate. You are going to say you're expecting the liberal party to have a majority government tomorrow. Is there anything that you think that will be abnormal about the vote tomorrow? Is there something that's going to take everyone by surprise though they didn't see that coming? Any quick thoughts from you,
Eric Abetz:
Neil? My task until six o'clock tomorrow night is to do everything I can to ensure a majority liberal government. For those of your listeners who are say minded, I will give them permission to watch the A b, C coverage of the election because I'll be on the panel and I will only be speculating about the result after the polls have closed at 6:00 PM tomorrow night.
Neil Johnson - Vision Radio:
And I think you'll make a tremendous contribution on an A, b, C panel as they're speculating about what's coming for the future of Tasmania with a new government elected,
Eric Abetz:
It'll be won against everybody else. Sophia, you'll be on your own. It'll be fun.
Neil Johnson - Vision Radio:
You're used to that, but maybe you're a bit rusty, so you'll be back to being sharp again tomorrow. For listeners, you are wondering what sort of research has gone into the parties and where you might be thinking as a Christian that you could cast a vote. A couple of sites to specially mention, that's the TAs votes.org au website. That's a website set up, especially by the Australian Christian lobby. And there's also the Australian Christian Values This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. au. I'd also remind listeners that Freedom for Faith, just type freedom for faith into your Google. You'll find a website. They will have insights into the Tasmanian election, which will be very informative. And there's also some This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. au website as well to our special guests who've been part of our broadcast Erica Bets. Thank you so much, Eric, for taking some time to share your thoughts with our listeners today.
Eric Abetz:
A pleasure and thanks for having me.
Neil Johnson - Vision Radio:
And to Jack Soman, the founder of the Australian Federation for the Family. Thank you so much for taking some time to share your thoughts and your heart with us on 2020. Thank
Jack Sonnemann:
You, Neil. It is always good to be with you. I need to see more of
Voice Over / Intro:
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